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Bariatric Surgery Support Groups

Posted by Bariatric Center on Sunday, June 6th, 2010

Weight Loss Surgery Support Group - Weight Loss Surgery Recuperation Depends On Support Meetings

Looking for bariatric surgery support is essential to letting you properly navigating your own journey following weight loss surgery. The doctor’s medical office is the best place to get the right answers to crucial inquiries regarding the your health nevertheless, you need to have a place to ask other folks the small everyday questions. Bariatric surgery support communities can be a setting to talk about your own success and also locate support to help you get over the difficult parts of the . Nothing at all is just like having exhortation of somebody who has previously encountered what you are. Here is where to find weight loss surgery help through weight loss surgery support groups.

Support organizations usually help patients who have not had surgery yet gain knowledge from the viewpoints of post-operative weight loss surgery patients. The brand new weight loss surgery patients provide an outstanding opportunity to meet up with other people, seek advice, as well as talk about their own expectations and issues. Frequently you can find that the physician will certainly visit from time to time to accept challenging health related concerns coming from the group and will generally defer the rest of the meeting to the support group overseer.

The support treatment can be a lengthy one and it helps to have others to turn to for advice. Weight loss surgery can bring about large adjustments in a person’s lifestyle, and different peoples experience is important to helping patient’s cope with their new reality. Becoming mindful of the specifics isn’t always adequate. There is an emotive component to suffering from the radical lifestyle changes involved right after the surgery. Patients thrive when given chances to seek advice and education from other people irrespective if it is from the bariatric surgeon, dietician, physical trainer, or the ordeals of others. Enabling the patient to “feel the compassion” from many others offering guidance is the emotional support that is so crucial.

The web is an excellent place to discover wls assistance. There are lots of individuals battling and wanting to reach out and get assistance from other people at almost all times of the day. The world wide web is really a place where this really is attainable. There are plenty of weight loss surgery discussion boards as well as chat websites that can certainly help post-operative weight loss surgery patients get the help needed.

It is important to not forget the strength that is present in numbers whenever it relates to support groups. Most bariatric patients have some type of difficulties with self image in blaming themselves as well as issues with having an emotion powered love affair with food. These types of problems must be resolved.

Support teams provide a place for individuals to break free from the disgrace of “messing up” following weight loss surgery. Don’t be one of those individuals who struggle in shame. Understand that, as a medical patient, you have support available. Individuals that do not understand this are stuck on a likely path of failure. Other patients will supply you with the best advice in how to cope with the everyday challenges. Visit meetings and listen to the group. Connecting with some other patients is a highly effective tool in maintaining the fight for a healthier lifestyle with reduced weight.

Don’t go into it thoughtlessly, actually to the point that you enroll in support group meetings ahead of going through the surgical treatment. That way you can get a good grasp of whether or not it really is for you. You will educate yourself from the experiences of other patients and it’ll improve your journey toward optimum health. It’s very effortless to find a mentor in a group like this. Mentors can be a solid foundation in times when you do not appear to want to proceed any longer in your journey to weight loss. It gives you strength to understand that a person is there with you along the way.

It is a wonderful place that you can learn from different people’s mistakes. Everyone makes mistakes, and if you will be able to talk it out with others, you will find that you can cope and adapt to your personal situation. To achieve success, it is essential to have someone with whom you can laugh or cry when you want someone to talk to. More often than not, individuals find relationships that last a lifetime. Being on your own, with no mentor, you will feel more isolated and the emotional eating may return. Remoteness increases the detrimental effects on your mind as you tried to recuperate from weight loss surgery. There is definitely strength in numbers.

Weight Loss Surgery Support Groups are more than just about airing your problems. You will discover that they can be very entertaining social events as well. Prior to your surgical treatment, I recommend that you go to a support group just to get a feel for what everyone was experiencing. This way you should have a good idea of what to expect. It will be life-changing and revealing. Discover from other people what it is actually like. Ask plenty of questions to not only the group but the individuals that are there. It is important that when you decide you’re going have the medical procedure that you continue to go to the meetings and stay in contact with successful patients. Learn from other people. All things considered, the surgery is merely the beginning, because this is an ongoing journey. Meetings are a safe place to congregate with others and talk about the stories of your from obesity. Not only that you will find that there is a lot more in terms of continuing education that will enhance your new lifestyle.

Here is a list of Support Groups By State:

Alabama Bariatric Surgery Support Meetings

City: Montgomery, AL
Contact: Peter Carroll
Email: petekf4qoe@charter.net
Phone: 334-263-9223

City: Mobile, AL
Contact: Mersey Whitehead
Phone: 251-435-3905

City: Anniston, AL
Contact: Joyce Johnson
Phone: 256-236-1300 or
800-675-3934

City: Birmingham, AL
Surgeon: Dr. Bryan Freeman
Contact: Rona Scott
Phone: 205-838-6589

City: Helena, AL
Contact: Jan
Phone: 205-665-5757

Alaska Meetings

City: Anchorage, AK
Phone: 907-929-4263
Surgeon: Dr. Todd

Arizona Weight Loss Treatment Support Groups

City: Phoenix
Contact: Kristi Chavez
Phone: 602-943-8475
Surgeon: Dr. Zahn

City: Phoenix, AZ
Contact: Carolyn Williams, RN
Phone: 480-515-6296

City: Tucson, AZ
Contact: Jeann Fishback
Phone: 520-885-6928
Email:fishback@ns.arizona.edu
Surgeon: Juarez 2002

City: Yuma, AZ
Contact: Dixie Power
Phone: 928-783-7142
Email: jdpower520@aol.com

Arkansas Bariatric WLS Support Groups
City: Fort Smith, AR
Contact: Beverly Sinkuler
Phone: 479-651-6513
Surgeon: Dr. Janes

California Bariatric Support Meetings

City: Sacramento
Contact: Mary O’Brien
Phone: 916-988-1434
Email: nursemary@comcast.net
Surgeon: City: Santa Rosa
Contact Name: Beth Venable http://www.sonomacountyrnysupportgroup.4t.com
Contact Email: EAV38@aol.com
Name of Surgeon: Robert Woodbury

Comments:
This weight loss surgery group meets the 2nd Saturday of every month at the Wells Fargo Center for the Arts from 10AM - noon.

City: Palm Springs, CA
Contact: Marsha Yousef, RN
Phone: 760-323-6346

City: Torrance, CA
Contact: Dr.Marcy Rosenzweig Leavitt
Phone: 323-540-2808
Email: dr.marcy@yahoo.com
Surgeon: Dr. Theodore Khalili

City: San Jose, CA
Contact: Candy
Phone: 408-432-6294
Surgeon: Pamela Foster

City: Bakersfield, CA
Contact: Kim Williamson
Phone: 661 363-9246
Surgeon: Dr. Edward Fleix

City: Modesto, CA
Contact: Jennifer Downs-Colby
Phone: 209-569-7578

City: Woodland Hills, CA
Contact: Sharon Wolfe, Support Group Leader
Meeting Information:
at Kaiser-Permanente, Entrance 5, Auditorium A
2nd Saturday of each month
10AM-11:30am
RSVP to wlsgroup@hotmail.com?
Phone 818-705-1702

City: Merced, CA
Contact: Jackie Gregory
Phone: 209-724-0237

City: Merced, CA
Contact: Linda Bartley
Phone: 209 756-9420


Colorado Bariatric Support Meetings

City: Colorado Springs, CO
Contact: Shelly Bennington
Phone: 719-570-7755
City: Fort Collins
Contact: Pam
Surgeon: Northern Colorado Surgical Association

Connecticut Weight Loss Surgery Support Groups

City: Ansoni, Waterbury, Manchester
Contact: Liza Branch
Phone: 203-225-8396,
Home 203-736-0741

City: Hamden, CT
Contact: Judy Szwaya
Phone: 203-288-9315
Email: judys43@snet.net
Surgeon: Dr. R. Reinhold

City: New London
Contact: Beth Farbotka
Phone: 860-446-2528
Email: farboea@aol.com
Surgeon: Dr. Robert Bell

Delaware Bariatric WLS Support Groups

City: Laurel, DE
Western New Life WLS Support Group
Contact Name: Heather O’Connor
Contact Phone: 302-536-1870 or 302-344-8764
Contact Email: meannevil2@yahoo.com
Name of Surgeon: Dr. Gail Wynn
Comments: All access group.

City: Long Neck, DE
Eastern New Life WLS Support Group
Contact Name: Joanne Hammond
Contact Phone: 302-947-0417
Contact Email: hambear73@aol.com
Comments: All access group open to everyone interested in help on their weight loss journey.

City: Newark, DE
Contact: Ellen Clevenger-Firley
Phone: 302-661-3006

District of Columbia Weight Loss Treatment Support Groups Group

City: Washington, DC
Contact: Mandy- Weight for Life
Phone: 202-659-0240
Surgeon: Dr. Joseph Afram

Florida WLS Support Groups

City: Weston, FL
Contact: Emily Wong-Swartz, MS, RD, LD/N
Phone: 954-659-5872
Email: swartze@ccf.org
Surgeon: Raul J. Rosenthal, MD, FACS, Samuel Szomstein, MD, FACS

City: Jacksonville, FL
Contact: LaWanda Hill
Phone: 904-755-5085
Email: wlsjacksonville@yahoo.com

City: Saint Cloud, FL
Contact: Jennifer Hall
Phone: 407-891-8780

City: Milton, FL
Surgeon: Dr. Joseph Althar

City: Brandon, FL
Contact: Denise Shreaves
Email: taznisie@yahoo.com
Surgeon: various

City: Port Charlotte, FL
Contact: Joy Moder
Phone: 941-204-3044
Email: Bypass_buddies@yahoo.com
Surgeon: Dr.Butler

Georgia

City: Northern Metro Atlanta
Contact: Lauralyn Bellamy
Phone: 404-394-3900
Email: embodysuccess@msn.com

City: Gainesville, GA
Contact: Surgeon’s Office
Phone: 770-534-0110
Surgeon: Dr. Procter/Dr. Richard

City: Conyers
Contact: Elaine
Phone: 770-760-0182
Surgeon: Kermie Robinson MD

City: Metro Atlanta
Contact: Deb Martinez
Phone: 731-444-4554
Surgeon: Dr. John Daly

Hawaii Bariatric Weight Loss Support Meetings

Castle Medical
http://www.castlemed.com

Idaho Bariatric Weight Loss Support Meetings Groups
City: Twin falls, ID
Contact: Tak-ming Ko, M.D.,P.A.
Phone: 208 732-8140
Surgeon: Tak-ming Ko, M.D.

Illinois Bariatric Support Meetings

City: Tinley Park
Contact: Tony Romeo
Phone: 708-229-5969

City: Moline, IL
Contact: Theresa Hensley
Phone: 309-792-4059 or 309-737-9421

City: River Forest
Contact: New Hope, IL
Phone: 708-386-1078
Surgeon: Drs. Marvin & Frederick Tiesenga

Indiana WLS Support Groups

City: Indianapolis, IN
Surgeon: Dr. Rosamarie Jones

City: Evansville, IN
Contact: Vicki Woods
Phone: 812-682-3466

City: Merrillville, IN
Contact: Dan Broadaway
Phone: 219-947-2309

Iowa WLS Support Groups

City: Fort Dodge, IA
Contact: Phyllis Ver Steeg
Phone: 515-955-6797
Email: info@iowabariatrics.com
Surgeon: Kyle R. Ver Steeg M.D.

City: Cedar Falls
Contact: Matthew Glascock, MD
Phone: 319-268-3560
City: Sioux City, IA
Contact: Deb Webster
Phone: 712 279-5848

Kansas Weight Loss Surgery Support Meetings

City: Topeka, KS
Contact: Brenda Kenworthy
Phone: 785-228-4773
Brent Steward, MD
Bernita Berntsen, MD
Carlyle Dunshee, MD

City: Kansas City, KS
Contact: Barb Stras
Phone: 913-381-1979
Surgeon: All Surgeons in the metro Kansas City area.

Kentucky Bariatric WLS Support Groups

City: Louisville, KY
David Geller, MD
Bariatric Surgeons of Kentuckiana
4001 Dutchmans Lane, Suite 1E
Louisville, Kentucky 40207
502-893-7151
FAX 502-893-7020

City: Bowling Green, KY
Contact: Barbara Pitcock
Phone: 270-781-1534 (after 7 Pm)
Email: barbnov55@msn.com
Surgeon: Dr David Dyer

City: Providence
Contact: Elaina Bolser
Phone: 270-667-5093
Email: elainabolser@yahoo.com

Louisiana Weight Loss Surgery Support Groups

Metairie WLS Support Group
Metairie, LA

Southern Surgical Hospital,
Slidell, LA

Maine Gastric Bypass & Weight Loss Surgery Support Groups

City: Portland
Contact: Cindy Michaud
Phone: 207-247-2376
City: Augusta, ME
Surgeon: Dr.Aslum and Dr.Zidian

Maryland Weight Loss Surgery Support Groups

City: Taneytown, MD
Contact: Pamela Robertson
Phone: 410-751-1879
Surgeon: Dr. Singh

City: Frederick, MD
Contact: Susan
Email: susanw1362@aol.com

Massachusetts Gastric Bypass & Weight Loss Surgery Support Groups Groups
City: Norwood, MA
Contact: Dr. Arthur Glasgow and Dr. Adam Glasgow
Caritas Norwood Hospital
825 Washington St, #160, Norwood, MA 02062
Phone: 781-769-5550
Email: info@glasgowandglasgow.com

City: Boston, MA
Contact: Frank Johnson
Phone: 617-933-7656
Email: alc3383@isd-media.com

City: Boston, MA
Contact: Steven Cole
Phone: 617-507-5579
Email: s-c-aads8857@superfancyemail.com

City: Boston
Contact: Beth Israel Deaconess Medical Center
Phone: 617-667-2845
Surgeon: D. Jones, B. Schneider, V. Sanchez

City: Boston, MA
Contact: Frank Johnson
Phone: 505-212-5124
Email: bed3995@radar3000.com?

City: Cape Cod, MA
Contact: Daniel Krueger
Phone: 617-515-7758
Surgeon: BIDMC Surgeons - Drs Mun, Schneider, Sanchez, & Jones

City: Boston, MA
Contact: Daniel Krueger
Phone: 617-515-7758
Surgeon: BIDMC Surgeons - Drs Mun, Schneider, Sanchez, & Jones

Michigan Weight Loss Surgery Support Meetings

City: Traverse City
Contact: Mary, MI
Phone: 231-941-0435
Surgeon: Wayne Vanderkolk

Minnesota Weight Loss Surgery Support Groups

City: Fridley
Contact: LaDonna Robinson
Phone: 763-236-2035
Surgeon: Daniel R. Baker, Frederick W. Johnson
?

Mississippi WLS Support Groups

City: Jackson
Contact: David Hales
Phone: 601-488-1051

Missouri Bariatric Support Meetings

City: Kansas City, MO
Contact: Sandy Riles
Phone: 816-932-5378
Email: sriles@saint-lukes.org
Surgeon: Dr. John Price

City: St Joseph, MO
Contact: Rick Felzien
Phone: 816-676-1212
Email: stjosephwlssg@yahoo.com

City: Moberly, MO
Contact: Michelle Mulnix
Phone: 660-295-4711

City: Springfield, MO
Contact: Cathy Wilson
Phone: 417-724-1687
Email: cathylw@cebridge.net
Surgeon: Christopher Edwards, MD and Cameron Hodges, MD

Montana Weight Loss Treatment Support Groups

Nebraska Bariatric Support Meetings

Nevada Bariatric WLS Support Groups

City: Las Vegas
Contact: Sheryl Titone
Phone: 702-249-9140
Surgeon: Alan Y Newhoff

New Hampshire Bariatric Support Meetings

City: Manchester, NH
Contact: Bariatric Surgery Program
Phone: 603-695-2840
Surgeon: Dr. David Gould, MD

New Jersey Bariatric WLS Support Groups
City: Galloway, NJ
Contact: Susan Johnston
Phone: 609-404-0916

City: Belleville, NJ
Contact: Barbara James
Phone: 973-687-5417
Surgeon: Dr Daniel Davis

City: Hamilton, NJ
Contact: Deborah Maguire RN
Phone: 609-584-6759

City: Edison, NJ
Email: marc@ibodywise.com
Surgeon: Marc Sylvester

New Mexico WLS Support Groups

City: Albuquerque
Contact: Stacey Hunter
Phone: 505-899-0923


New York Bariatric Support Meetings

City: Schenectady, NY
Contact: Pamela Spicer
Email: spicersunshine@aol.com
Surgeon: Lirio & Clark

City: Springville
Contact: Felecia Meyers
Phone: 716-496-5191
Email: FMeyers@Pion.wnyric.org
Surgeon: Caruana

City: St. Albans
Contact: Diana
Phone: 718-464-7827
Surgeon: Dr. Macura

City: Binghamton
Contact: Donna Kerila
Phone: 607-757-2626
Email: dkerila@stny.rr.com

City: Farmington
Contact Joanne Donaldson
Phone: 315-986-3836

North Carolina Weight Loss Treatment Support Groups
City: Charlotte, NC
Contact: Jennifer Sawyer
Phone: 704-347-4144
Email: jrsawyer@southeastbariatrics.com

Surgeon: Dr. David Voellinger
City: Charlotte, NC
Contact: Jennifer Sawyer
Phone: 704-472-4602
Email: jenjantsch@yahoo.com

City: Greenville, NC
Contact: Crystal Frye
Phone: 252-758-7957
Surgeon: Dr. Balder

City: Mooresville, NC
Contact: Linda Sue Smith
Phone: 704-905-8540
Surgeon: Dr. Roc Bauman

City: Bessemer City
Contact: Nikki Huddle
Phone: 704-867-5508
or 704-678-7412
Surgeon: Dr. Roc Bauman (Concord, N.C.)

Ohio Bariatric Support Meetings

Oklahoma Bariatric Weight Loss Support Meetings

City: Tulsa
Contact: Dianna Pullen
Phone: 918-369-9024

City: Moore/Norman
Contact: Connie Barnhill
Phone: 405-360-8965

City: Duncan
Contact: Karin Lerew, Satellite Support Group Coordinator
Phone: 940-781-9955 or 940-723-0158?
Email: klerew@prairieskys.com
Surgeon: Kenneth Warnock

Oregon Weight Loss Surgery Support Meetings

City: Hood River, OR
Contact: Office
Phone: 541-387-6125
Fax: 541-387-6321
Surgen: David Maccabee, MD

City: Roseburg, OR
Contact: Melonie
Surgeon: DR. Bret Hansen
City: Salem and Portland
Contact: Mary Lou Greenwood
Phone: 503-571-3082
Surgeon: Kaiser Permanente

Pennsylvania Bariatric Weight Loss Support Meetings

City: Brownsville, PA
Contact: Theresa
Phone: 724-632-5668
Email: newbeginningstq05@yahoo.com

City: Phoenixville, PA
Contact: Marilyn Gropper & Kathy Cesario
Phone: 610-415-1318
Email: kbc0219@aol.com?
Meetings are for both pre-ops & post-ops locally. Everyone is welcome regardless of doctor.

City: Johnstown, PA
Contact: Benny O’Connor, RNC
Phone: 814-534-9471

City: Hazleton, PA
Contact: Jane Lashock, RN
Phone: 570-459-5607
Surgeon: Dr. Michael Bono City: Easton
Contact: Amanda Nyce, RN
Phone: 610-250-4116
Surgeon: James Koren, MD

City: Latrobe
Contact: Thersa Bellus
Phone: 724-836-5905

City: Langhorne, PA
Phone: 215 702 7600
Surgeon: Dr. Neil Marymor, Dr Christopher Kaczmiarski

City: York, PA
Contact: Dan Ort
Phone: 717-854-7772
Surgeon: Dr John Monk

City: Lewistown, PA
Contact: Amy McKelvey
Phone: 717-247-2796
Surgeon: Patient-Run

City: Hershey, PA
Contact: Janelle McLeod
Email: jmcleod@psu.edu
Surgeon: Dr. Robert Cooney, Dr. James Ku, Dr. Randy Haluck

City: Pittsburgh, PA
Contact: Sally Stewart
Phone: 412-531-6177

City: Hazleton, PA
Contact: Jane Lashock, RN
Phone: 570-459-5607
Surgeon: Dr. Michael Bono

City: Fairfield, PA
Contact: Stephen Moats
Phone: 717-762-2494
Surgeon: Dr. James Ku

City: Aliquippa
Contact: Darla Evans, Registered Dietician
Phone: 724-857-1309
Surgeon: New Life Bariatrics

South Carolina Weight Loss Surgery Support Groups

City: Charleston, SC
Contact: Jacquie Foster
Email: jacquiehowe@hotmail.com
Surgeon: Dr. Michael Sabback

City: Greer, SC
Contact: Gayle Corbin
Phone: 864-879-2040
Surgeon: Dr. David M. Hall

City: Conway, SC
Contact: Jerrie Vibbert
Phone: 843-234-1725

South Dakota Weight Loss Treatment Support Groups

Tennessee Weight Loss Treatment Support Groups

City: Clarksville, TN
Contact: Amy Lawrence
Phone: 931-431-3542
Surgeon: William Steely

City: Johnson City, TN
Contact: Pat Cline
Phone: 423-245-6198

Texas Bariatric Weight Loss Support Meetings

City: Dallas,TX
Contact: Dwayne Guccione - Psy Med
Phone: 214-348-5557
Email: psymed@msn.com

City: Abilene,TX
Contact: Barbara Dahl
325-692-0112 or 325-669-6356
Email: barbara@abilene.com
Surgeon: Kenneth Warnock

City: Wichita Falls,TX
Contact: Kim Smith
940-764-3366 or 940-224-995
Email: kimbs@sbcglobal.net
Surgeon: Kenneth Warnock

City: Amarillo,TX
Contact: Karin Lerew, Satellite Support Group Coordinator
Phone: 940-723-0158 or 940-781-9955
Email: klerew@prairieskys.com
Surgeon: Kenneth Warnock

City: Killeen/Fort Hood, TX
Contact: Doug or Susan Edwards
Phone: Phone: 254-526-1142
Email: TexicanKing@hot.rr.com
Surgeon: Kenneth Warnock

City: Grand Prairie,TX
Surgeon: Dr. John Alexander

City: Mesquite, TX
Contact: Ken Koshar
Phone: 972-698-6152

City: League City, TX
Contact: Susan
Phone: 281-554-8223
Surgeon: Dr. A. Naaman

City: San Antonio, TX (Lackland AFB)
Contact: Marie Keys
Phone: 210-292-3404
Surgeon: Dr. Goldberg, Bowers & Jenkins

City: Weatherford, TX
Contact: Edwina Himes
Phone: 817-694-0897

City: Denton, TX
Contact: Leah
Phone: 940-382-7321
Surgeon: Daryl A. Stewart M.D.

Utah Weight Loss Surgery Support Groups

Virginia Bariatric WLS Support Groups

City: Winchester,VA
Contact: Michelle Kniceley or Karol Truetle
Phone: 540-327-8606
or 540-247-3872 Karol
Surgeon: Dr. Glembot and Dr. Bechamps

City: Fredericksburg,VA
Contact: Cathy Peterjohn
Phone: 540-741-1680
Surgeon: Dr. Bradford King

City: Richmond,VA
Contact: Faye S. Ashby
Phone: 804-266-3670
Surgeon: Dr. Neil Hutcher

City: Fairfax,VA
Staple Club
Meets at Inova Fair Oaks Professional building on Monday once a month
Contact: Sally Myers, RD, CPT
Email: sallycpt@aol.com

Washington

City: Port Angeles, WA
Contact: Judy Suess
Phone: 360-681-0837
Email: judys@wavecable.com

City: Bellingham, WA
Contact: Amy Edminster
Phone: 360-966-0432

City: West Richland, WA
Contact: Carleen Golden
Phone: 509-967-3538

City: Bellevue/Mercer Island/Seattle, WA
Contact: Julia Ziobro
Phone: 425-947-4541 24/7 voice mail
Surgeon: Each of these are local bariatric surgeons; more than ten are represented in there meetings through patients.

West Virginia WLS Support Groups

City: Morgantown, WV
Contact: Debby
Phone: 304-599-1448
Surgeon: Dr. Mark Johnson

City: Bridgeport, WA
Contact: Eileen Brown
Phone: 304-842-5365

City: Huntington, WA
Contact: Joy Nutter
Phone: 526-8278
Surgeon: Dr. Tim Robarts

Wisconsin

City: Waukesha, WI
Contact: Megan O’Driscoll
Phone: 262-522-8300
Toll Free 888-512-8300
Surgeons: David Engstrand, MD
Manfred Chiang, MD
James Burhop, MD

City: Wausau, WI
Contact: Patricia Unger
Phone: 715-675-4120
Surgeon: Dr. Matthew Johnson

City: Brookfield, WI
Contact: Megan O’Driscoll, RN
Phone: 262-522-8300
Surgeon: Engstrand, Chiang, Burhop

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